Day634HRChat
Humanity Rising Day 634 Chat Page – Thursday February 16, 2023
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Text of the Zoom Chat from Humanity Rising Day 634
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11:02:15 From Shannon McArthur to Everyone:
Good day to you all!
Loving greetings from the traditional lands of the Secwepemc now known as Kamloops BC Canada. Welcome to Humanity Rising!
11:03:17 From Hyacinth Oesterlin to Everyone:
Will be very interesting for me, an Anglican. Blessings and Love
11:04:32 From Richard Page to Everyone:
Also a member of the Anglican Communion as an Episcopalian here…
11:09:17 From Naomi Calligaro to Everyone:
People in England began realising that slavery was very, very wrong long before 1803
11:10:26 From Ina Albert to Everyone:
Ina Albert;Moses spoke to Pharaoh and invoked the 10 plagues to free the Hebrews from slavery. Finally they were freed and wondered the desert in freedom.
11:11:01 From Richard Page to Everyone:
Loss and Damages agreement by the recent UN Congress of Parties 27 in Egypt has been called a reparations issue after ten years of research by the Pan African Council. Seven of the ten nations most affected by climate chaos are majority populated by African diaspora people
11:11:17 From Barbara Cohen to Host and Panelists:
This looks wonderful! Will explore the other sessions as well — first i have heard of this . . . however i exited another mtg to get here so will return there and catch this session via recording . . . thanks =)
11:11:29 From Stan 4 ChatPeople to Everyone:
Welcome to Day 634 of Humanity Rising
11:13:05 From Stan 4 ChatPeople to Everyone:
=========================
..oOo..
Welcome to Humanity Rising
With Love...
Some of us are gathering in a Zoom meeting for conversation after this session.
You can join the After Chat here:
::::::::::https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81045613451?pwd=S1JxSE9WNzJQV2JKSXhhaFZ3Wng1UT09::::::::::
Meeting ID: 8 10 4561 3451
Passcode: 919541
..oOo..
We’ll post this notice several times…
=========================
11:13:36 From Paul Hillery to Everyone:
Interested in today’s presentation. I might be the only Black member of this group and have alway been concerned that there are not many more. Black Slavery is one thing, 80,000 killed in just the Atlantic Crossing, but it’s now crown to International Slave trading on a MASSIVE scale. The Obama was elected president many people thought the Race Problem was over, but that would be laughable If it wasn’t” so tragically Faust.
11:14:18 From Kathryn Alexander, MA to Everyone:
Martin you are one of the real and hidden, unsung heroes!!!
11:16:25 From Richard Page to Everyone:
At COP27, Al Gore’s main point was the need for facilitating billions in climate mitigation financing
11:16:56 From Stan 4 ChatPeople to Rick Botelho, Host and Panelists:
Looks like you made it here.
11:17:35 From jude Asphar to Host and Panelists:
I wonder what Martin has to say about the Doctrine of Discovery?
11:23:10 From Rick Botelho to Host and Panelists:
For newbies, can you lay out the format of these sessions?
11:23:38 From Paul Hillery to Everyone:
Slavery is an Eternal Paosition, long before ancients aegyptians\\\\Greeks and Romanms,
11:23:39 From Paul Hillery to Everyone:
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11:23:39 From Paul Hillery to Everyone:
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11:24:35 From Richard Page to Everyone:
Muslim occupation of Andalusia was tolerant of other ‘people of the book’, Jews and Christians. A vibrant culture ensued, introducing modern mathematics, medicine and science…
11:26:53 From Richard Page to Everyone:
Anglicans hold firmly to the Nicene Creed, reciting it at every Mass
11:28:33 From Hyacinth Oesterlin to Everyone:
Yes Richard, we say the Nicene Creed at the Eucharist (Mass)
11:30:39 From Shannon McArthur to Everyone:
Paul, thank you for being one of our number. Be assured, you are not the only black person here. I’m sorry you feel that way. Dr (Cuf) Corroy Ferguson and Dr. Joyce Hope Scott are but two. Panelists they brought have joined us in the AfterChat, where we have welcomed others in the past. It’s wonderful to have a diverse group. I look forward to more, and hope you can join us sometime in the AfterChat.
11:31:30 From Kurt Krueger, PeaceMakers Circles/Network to Everyone:
What good is being planned for all this ‘deep’ history.?
11:31:43 From David Storey to Everyone:
The Nicene / Cof E creed to me as a lifetime Anglican with claim to be an Interfaith theologian is desperately out of date and inappropriate. So we may recite it but many of us don't agree with it. David Storey
11:33:11 From Rick Botelho to Everyone:
Interesting frame for “reparation”. What are the conditions for the investment return for the C/E?
11:34:21 From Myriam Kalmogho (she/her/hers) to Everyone:
"investing"?
11:34:50 From Hyacinth Oesterlin to Everyone:
Yes Dave, there are a few precepts which could be revised. But for the most part, no problem, for most
11:34:53 From Shannon McArthur to Everyone:
David, that kind of “lip-service” is worse than useless. It conditions you to go against your word.
11:35:20 From franka.com to Everyone:
St. Mary Redcliffe in Bristol
::https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mary_Redcliffe::
11:36:37 From Richard Page to Everyone:
Celtic scholar John Philip Newell explains the devolution of the Christian church when it ‘got into bed with the Empire in the 4th Century AD’. His recent book, Sacred Earth, Sacred Soul, traces the history of Ex Nihilo theology, that God created matter out of nothing, as contributing to legitimizing exploitation and extraction of ‘dead matter’. Panentheism, theology that God is in everything, and everything is in God, often earned excommunication for adhererents
11:37:45 From jude Asphar to Everyone:
Yes, the customary patriarchal language of the Nicene Creed….and the “Lord’s” prayer, etc….staggering that is still so acceptable!
11:38:26 From Leo Jacoby to Everyone:
::https://www.episcopalchurch.org/sacred-ground/:: (The Episcopal church has a comprehensive curriculum of documentary films and readings that focus on Indigenous, Black, Latino, and Asian/Pacific American histories as they intersect with European American histories.)
11:39:02 From jude Asphar to Everyone:
Though I do believe the C of E is looking to alter the language issue, somewhat?!
11:39:43 From Rick Botelho to Everyone:
How do you differentiate between social impact investing and capitalist investing? What about social impact development funding? As opposed to charitable grants.
11:40:41 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
100 million divided by 10,000 indigenous gravesites confirmed = 10,000 per dead child
11:41:54 From Hyacinth Oesterlin to Everyone:
Conflict Management is one of Cantab´s expertise
11:42:12 From Naomi Calligaro to Host and Panelists:
I believe it was only 8 years ago, in 2015, that Britain finished paying off the money that it borrowed to compensate the British slave OWNERS for the Abolition of slavery (with the slaves receiving NO compensation whatever!). Consequently, people like the Windrush generation Carribean emigrants to Britain who have been so shamefully wronged here in Britain, were contributing in their taxes here in Britain to the paying off of the compensation to British slave owners who owned their ancestors in the Carribean!!! How is that for injustice???
11:42:33 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
The church and crown seem to be crumbling at the same rate
11:44:03 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
Hopefully Charles’s penning of the Terra Carta will be taken up before its too late
11:44:30 From Richard Page to Everyone:
@Leo, yes, Sacred Ground is a brilliant curriculum developed over 10 years of reseated by Tracy Brown, whose ancestors were the largest slave ship owners. Our own little parish created 10 circles of ten people to engage with the films and readings over 10 weeks. We grew in vulnerability and care for each other as we wept together for what we have collectively done…
11:45:13 From Rick Botelho to Everyone:
In 2016, 14 percent of Britons identified themselves as Church of England, down from 31 percent 15 years ago, the British Social Attitudes survey found. The number saying they had no religion rose from 41 to 52 percent. How is the C of E relevant in Little Briton 🙂?
11:45:32 From Stan 4 ChatPeople to Everyone:
I wonder who speaks, or writes about the mostly hidden party to the story of slavery. That hidden component is comprised of the working people who have lost work opportunities because their “work” was being done by slaves.
11:48:05 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
Todays global supplychain is a byproduct of the same philosophy that indebted slaves AND performed a genocide against indigenous societies.
11:48:50 From Dr. Carroy (Cuf) Ferguson to Everyone:
@Paul. You are not alone here. As an African American, I am here from Boston. Dr. Cuf
11:49:26 From Richard Page to Everyone:
A Berkeley, California City Council subcommittee has asked for $50 million payment for each descendant of slaves
11:49:27 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
The reality today is that EVERYONE is a colonizer, of the labour of youth AND marginalization of Nature
11:50:03 From Hyacinth Oesterlin to Everyone:
Haiti paid reparations to France for the loss of income by slaveowners when Haiti revolted for some 70 years
11:50:10 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
There are MANY indigenous gravesites discovered in the USA also
11:50:50 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
To call this a CANADIAN thing is an abstraction of the truth
11:51:13 From astridstahlberg to Everyone:
Well said….. agree that we are all- in one way or another - colonizers…. ..
11:52:14 From Hyacinth Oesterlin to Everyone:
Archbishop Rowan Williams began to look into the dreadful reception of the Windrush Folk in churches in England
11:52:38 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
Imagine that while Canada was sending Indigenous men INTO war to stop genocide, while the Church was actively genociding their own children
11:54:17 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
The indigenous people have known about the Churches penchant for children and sexual exploitation
11:54:47 From Barbro Esbjörnsdotter to Everyone:
if parents were not human how could the Children be human. And if the Children were human the parents had to be.
11:55:41 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
This pope is a business man who realizes that he needs to broaden the collection plate and peripheral sexual behaviours is an easy target market for more $$$
11:56:34 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
Or those who have longtime been seen, and taught, as evil ; by the church
11:56:56 From Rick Botelho to Everyone:
How will the C of E address the escalating inequities in Little Britain given its Brexit economic decline? What about the economic abuses of neoliberalism on working class people in Divided Kingdom?
11:57:05 From jude Asphar to Everyone:
WHO ARE THOSE investment funds?
11:57:46 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
#LandBack
11:58:02 From Stan 4 ChatPeople to Everyone:
Where can a Universal Basic Income fit into the conversation around various kinds of compensations?
11:59:09 From Rick Botelho to Everyone:
What are the differences between investments without getting money back and charity? What are the accountabilities for social impact?
11:59:42 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
In Canada there is a large LANDBACK narrative that suggests that Indigenous people have a SAY in land development, as their planning is designed for 7 GENERATIONS; Compared to the 4 year election cycles we are stuck in..
12:00:59 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
Universal Basic Income is a neoliberal tragedy that will entrench labour profiles that rely on women and children
12:01:56 From Barbro Esbjörnsdotter to Everyone:
Following Christ with their portfolios?
12:02:12 From Stan 4 ChatPeople to Everyone:
Money not just stolen from the enslaved, but also stolen from those who were left out of the economic process by not having the opportunities that slavery eliminated.
12:02:14 From Lynne Franks to Everyone:
So true about the philanthropists were all crooks - how they got rich, sad to say!
12:02:24 From Rick Botelho to Everyone:
What about the best examples of religious “investments” for making social impacts that make amends for stolen money?
12:03:06 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
this pope is a BUSINESS MAN
12:03:44 From Leo Jacoby to Everyone:
::https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/pope-francis-doctrine-discovery-indigenous-1.6536174::
EXCERPTS: On May 4, 1493, Pope Alexander VI issued the papal bull known as "Inter Caetera" that provided Portugal and Spain the religious backing to expand their territories in Africa and the Americas for the sake of spreading Christianity. By 1537, Pope Paul III had issued his own decree that opposed the enslavement of Indigenous peoples. He wrote that they should "by no means to be deprived of their liberty or the possession of their property, even though they be outside the faith of Jesus Christ." The Vatican did address the doctrine in a statement to the United Nations Ninth Session of the Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues in April 2010. The doctrine, the Vatican argued, had been abrogated as early as 1494 and that "circumstances have changed so much that to attribute any juridical value to such a document seems completely out of place."
12:03:45 From Leo Jacoby to Everyone:
The Doctrine of Discovery had also been abrogated by other papal bulls, encyclicals, statements and decrees, it said. "The bull Inter Caetera is a historic remnant with no juridical, moral or doctrinal value," the statement said. "The Holy See confirms that Inter Caetera has already been abrogated and considers it without any legal or doctrinal value." In an email to CBC News, Jonathan Lesarge, a spokesman for the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops, echoed that the Vatican has previously clarified that the papal bulls associated with the Doctrine of Discovery have no legal or moral authority in the Church. "However, we understand the desire to name these texts, acknowledge their impact and renounce the concepts associated with them," he said. "The Bishops of Canada are working with the Vatican and those who have studied this issue, with the goal of issuing a new statement from the Church."
12:04:27 From Helena Janik to Host and Panelists:
This Pope...good?? Oh dear. I have to leave this zoom call
12:04:58 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
His visit to Canada has NOT provided any RETURN of cultural items stolen and hidden in rooms for generations
12:05:00 From Aida Merriweather to Everyone:
what keeps you workin and in integrity with yourself with all these conflicting, complex strands
12:05:03 From jude Asphar to Everyone:
Darn it. Gotta go — thank you so much, as always 🌎🌏🌍
12:07:11 From Leo Jacoby to Everyone:
::https://churchlifejournal.nd.edu/articles/papal-condemnation-of-the-doctrine-of-discovery/::
12:07:31 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
North American Curriculum is designed at an arms length from the church, and specifically created to make the perfect idiot; void of historical truths.
12:07:56 From Michelle Massi to Everyone:
Leo you are a gem, I have so appreciated your posts that bring information and additional learning thank you Michelle M
12:08:00 From Hyacinth Oesterlin to Everyone:
Diego Garcia ???
12:08:44 From Richard Page to Everyone:
Martin, please return often
12:09:34 From Naomi Calligaro to Host and Panelists:
The Jesuit Order was definitely in existence in 1814. This is the year that the Jesuits founded Clongowes Wood College, a super elite boarding school in Ireland, located in a beautiful Castle. I know about Clongowes because it is the school that many of the boys in my family attended, including my now late father. My grandfather's uncle was Rector of the school. The Hansard record of the Westminster Parliamentary debate on the Jesuit founding of Clongowes makes for fascinating reading! The debate was near hysterical in terms of the level of fear of the British Establishment over the Jesuits founding this school!!! James Joyce immortalised Clongowes in his famous semi autobiographical book, 'Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man'. My grandfather's uncle was Rector of Clongowes shortly after James Joyce's time at the school.
12:09:35 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
The 2000+ year Male dominant creation story, that includes a VIRGIN birth AND a RIB that creates WOMEN, needs to die…..with the divine feminine being the next 2000 years
12:09:35 From Yasmina Groenstein to Everyone:
@Leo Thank you for enlighten us!⚘️
12:10:36 From Stan 4 ChatPeople to Everyone:
Martin, stories need to be classified and indexed in order to be effective. Please see ::https://othernetworks.org/index.php?search=Religion&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns14=1::
12:10:52 From Yasmina Groenstein to Everyone:
@Kevin Than you for your passion on this subject.⚘️
12:11:13 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
The dominance of the male creation story has killed more women and children than anything in history
12:12:15 From Yasmina Groenstein to Everyone:
@Kevin -Ahem! ⚘️
12:13:15 From Barbara Nussbaum to Everyone:
Thank you. what an excellent dialogue!
12:13:19 From Stan 4 ChatPeople to Everyone:
Global movements, just a few of those out there: ::https://othernetworks.org/Category:Is-Global_Movement::
12:13:23 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
It would be wonderful to share this space with leaders within marginalized communities, so they can listen to a religious British man’s perspective and share their truths BACK to him
12:13:28 From astridstahlberg to Everyone:
Thank you so much!!!!
12:13:31 From Naomi Calligaro to Host and Panelists:
Fascinating! Thank you so much.
12:13:36 From Shannon McArthur to Everyone:
Faith = risk… from the “faithful”
12:13:43 From Charry Stover to Everyone:
What a delightful interview. Thank you so much!
12:13:45 From Kathleen McTeigue to Everyone:
thank you for this great great work you are doing, Martin.
12:13:57 From Stan 4 ChatPeople to Everyone:
With Love...
Some of us are gathering in a Zoom meeting for conversation after this session.
You can join the After Chat here:
::::::::::https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81045613451?pwd=S1JxSE9WNzJQV2JKSXhhaFZ3Wng1UT09::::::::::
Meeting ID: 8 10 4561 3451
Passcode: 919541
..oOo..
12:13:58 From Shannon McArthur to Everyone:
Please come to the AfterChat
12:13:58 From Leila Yazigi-Jeantelot to Everyone:
Beautiful work. Thank you . Love and Light
12:13:59 From Leo Jacoby to Everyone:
::https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2022/07/28/dontrine-discovery-pope-francis-243435:: Thank you Martin for historical context and what you are DOING -- best way to rescind past errors
12:14:02 From Naomi Calligaro to Host and Panelists:
God Bless
12:14:03 From Kevin he/him Canada to Everyone:
Wonderful discussion today
12:14:03 From Paul Hillery to Everyone:
Yes, the Portuguese and Spanish, then.. Dutch, etc.Slavery has been since the grinning of time.
12:14:21 From Stan 4 ChatPeople to Everyone:
You can join the After Chat here:
::::::::::https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81045613451?pwd=S1JxSE9WNzJQV2JKSXhhaFZ3Wng1UT09::::::::::
Meeting ID: 8 10 4561 3451
Passcode: 919541
12:14:27 From Shannon McArthur to Everyone:
Martin, please come...
12:14:29 From Yasmina Groenstein to Everyone:
❤🙏To you all!
12:14:29 From Alexandra Lincoln to Host and Panelists:
Brilliant. Thank you! 🙏💕
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