HR!Day600 Transcript
Back To: HR!Day600 - Technologies of Hope V: Natural Concrete - Changing The Way Roads & Highways Are Built
[Tom Eddington] 11:17:16
Lj. First as an investment banker, then a venture capitalist, and then co-managed, a Leverage Buyout Fund.
He left to found Wind farms limited the First Utility Wind Energy Development Company, where he build a staff of 60, developers in 1,990, he became CEO, and Chairman of the San Francisco and Moscow Teleport and Install the first 500 line Direct Dial Telecom to
Moscow, he's an entrepreneur.
He started many companies, and employment, corporate training, business software and today he's dedicated to slowing, Climate Change, by Applying Fintech to Financing, Solar and storage, Projects so Wayne's having trouble, with the with technology, this, morning so Bob Let's let's have
You join us first
[Bob Sherwin] 11:18:08
Good morning, and thank you for for having me with you today.
I'm happy to happy to be here
[Tom Eddington] 11:18:13
We'll need you to turn on your video
[Bob Sherwin] 11:18:16
Okay.
I'm into Hawaii today and it's still dark outside and and I don't know how well this is gonna work.
Is he I can't even find any more light in the room.
Here, so this is going to be
[Tom Eddington] 11:18:35
We can we can see you and we can that we can hear you so what do, you what why don't you share a little bit about your background.
And the and and lift tech, and the technology.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:18:49
Okay, Well, my background is is actually not at all. What I'm doing.
Now I I was real estate and real estate developer for for 20 years, and it was in that career that I was looking for a green road to technology, on a development that we're doing that's a agreement and sustainable development and it it led me to this technology, which has gone through a
Lot of Iterations and Changes Since we since we started and We're 11 Years Since Since the Company Started and started Out with A Technology Out of Canada that Ultimately, did not Work, and and I had Found Out that there had been a lot of Attempts at What We Do but
According to the Dot product evaluation programs there's not one of them that had.
Ever since you know made it a year without failing in terms of when the Monsoon Seasons hit and freeestaw in the winter time, and so forth, that they would come up so it took us 11 7 of the 11, years just in R.
And D, and literally thousands of of Tests to to to find the Combination of how to get the technology, to work, in literally, thousands of soil, types, when you when you look at soil, and and really what this technology, is we we've trademarked, the name as nature's, Concrete
And the the term, Lithification, is a term in nature, where soil turns into stone over tens of thousands of years, where sand become sandstone, clay, becomes slate, every kind of rock that's out there started out at some form of of soil and with naturally occurring minerals that come together
With heat pressure and time. they eventually become stone. And so our technology, we took you know, a page from Mother Nature and tried to figure out, what are these naturally occurring minerals that come together.
With heat pressure, and time to to have this occur and and we came up with some accelerators that enable it to happen in 24 h.
And so the technology is called accelerated lithification.
And so we have been able to apply that technology, across a spectrum of of thousands of soil types.
And and now into mind tailings that don't really even resemble soil anymore.
For example, the Rio Tinto tailings.
Look more like, great, howcom powder and they've been processed with strict 9.
And acids and different things, to to extract the the precious metals out of the out of the soil, and so what's left is is more like a very lightweight, powder, and a good wind comes along and they can end up you know hundreds of miles away and so to have a wait to
Bind those Tailings up and keep them from becoming Airborne, particulates, what a lot of the Mining Companies have done Is is build reservoirs and Submerge them underwater and today, there's a 180 million Tons, of of Tailings, that go into
Water, Bodies, every every year, and that's one and a half times all the waste going to all the Landfills, every year.
So it's a huge problem. And and when they go into reservoirs, they can leach into the water, tables and what has happened 5 times is the dams of broke, because they don't build concrete dams, like like a Hoover Dam or something like that It's, they actually
Stack, the tailings and use the tailings, to try to to to make the the Dams out of that, and 5 times those dams have broke and the last time happened in Brazil Killed 298 people and was an Environmental Disaster so so we were Able to turn those
Tailings into virtually concrete and pass a test that the EPA has called the synthetic precipitation, leaching procedure, test which means nothing is is leaching out into the environment.
And so that's the application. We we use in the in the Mining Industry, and and we have other applications, that we use for roads, and in the in the road, technology basically the Sang, and road Construction, as a Roads, where from the top but they fail, from the bottom and so
Typically what happens in in rot construction. Is base course goes underneath the road.
S, and Base Courses, just Fractured aggregate and Sand mixed together, and it's compacted they put moisture into it and Compact it at Optima Moisture, Content to Make It as Hard as Possible, and then they put the Asphalt on Top of of the Base
course and the roads are all designed, based upon the weight loads for for those roads, and 42 trucks have extreme wear and tear on the roads, according to the Dot Studies of every Single 40 Ton Truck, is if Equivalent to 10,000, Automobiles, so when you
look at today's shipping with Amazon and Walmarts and Costco's and targets.
It's an unprecedented number of 40 ton trucks on the highway today, 15 million and so that's the equivalent of 1.5 trillion cars on on the roads and so it's the foundation of the roads that that are giving way and when you hear
about America's crumbling infrastructure. It's it's because of that Kind of Weight load.
So what this technology does is it brings extreme load bearing capacity, into the foundation of the roads?
And so in in simple terms, there's many different tests that the Dots use one is called resilient modulus.
But base course has 25,000 psi modulus, Asphalt has 500,000 psi modulus Lyftek has the ability to turn the base course into 1.5 million Psi Modulus and so what we have found is is that it's actually better to
Match, the same strength as the Asphalt at 500,000.
Because if if you make it harder under the under the asphalt, the asphalt will actually break down faster.
If you match it with the strength, and the Permeability because water will slowly pass through the the asphalt, it's called low and Slope Permeability, we match, the Permeability and the Load bearing Capacity of the base so now every Inch of the foundation has the same.
Strength, of Asphalt, so if that road was designed to have 6 or 8 inches of Asphalt on top of it, and you have a foundation that's 8 inches of lip, tech it's the Equivalent of Ag inches of Asphalt before you put An Asphalt on
It. So now you can reduce the pavement design to the minimum that that they can a lay down.
Machine can put it down as 2 inches. So you just reduced the the thickness of the asphalt, from say, 6 inches, to 2.
Which is a reduction of two-thirds, of the greenhouse gases.
It takes to make that asphalt and so, and then the base course itself to do what they call a county standard of 24 feet wide, and 6 inches deep, of of Base, course takes 187 Truckloads of Base course per Mind and with Lip Tech we could go into
A a road that say, it's a county gravel road that's the base course is all pulverized and and basically time to import.
The next 6 inches, which occurs every 5 years, just on a Gravel road after just keep starting over, and and continually re re apply the the base course we could go into that Pulverized Gravel with 7 Truckloads of lift hat which is a Powder and gets
Blended into that polarized base with water and compacted, and instead of Top-quality Base course at 25,000 Psa.
We make it 500,000 psi, and instead of asphalt you can put a one inch layer, of Chip seal on top of that which normally would not last very long, but when you put it on top of lift tech it'll last as long as asphalt for 25 cents on the Dollar for the counties.
So.
[Tom Eddington] 11:29:15
Oh, Bob, you know one of the themes from that we've had this week, and you know George and Jim both teed it up nicely, is that humanity's been separating ourselves.
[Tom Eddington] 11:29:29
From nature. And has arrogantly believed for thousands of years.
[Tom Eddington] 11:29:34
Now that we can control nature and what I what I really appreciate about what you're up to and and certainly, What Wayne is up to is that you both have gone back to nature, based solutions and tried to look at what is what is mother nature help or have to have available for us, and what can we
[Tom Eddington] 11:29:54
Learn from nature and as just as terrific that you, both from a technological perspective, have brought that pre that into the the work you're doing
[George Cappannelli] 11:30:05
Well, Bob, good morning. It's terrific to see you again.
[George Cappannelli] 11:30:09
It's been a while. And if you get a chance on when you get a chance, if you could make a little bit to your left, that light would probably add a little bit more and we can begin to see you in the early morning, hours.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:30:10
Hey Hi! George!
[Bob Sherwin] 11:30:21
Okay.
[George Cappannelli] 11:30:31
I also want to tell our viewers that bob and Tom and I all live in New Mexico, and Bob and I both live in Santa fe and it's amazing the number of Roads here, Senatorades, proud them Pride, themselves, on having a Lot of Dirt Roads, in
[George Cappannelli] 11:30:52
their community, and yet, this is a target rich environment.
[George Cappannelli] 11:31:00
For you and I would sincerely hope that the city and the town eventually, and the county wake up to the reality that sending truckloads of Gravel and graders out every several weeks to regrade Roads and to prevent Washington for you All of the Wonderful Products you have and I
[George Cappannelli] 11:31:22
keep insisting, that they call you. I don't know if they're doing anything in that particular regard, but clearly what you're doing is contributing enormously not only to the Stability of our Roads, and their Lasting power but to the end of a lot.
[George Cappannelli] 11:31:45
of the toxicity that's happening and I'm delighted to hear about your mind the work that you're doing in mind and in dealing with that toxicity, so maybe we should bring wayne in and next and then we can open it up to a broader dialogue.
[Tom Eddington] 11:32:02
Yeah, wayne, please, please, turn your video on and and share.
[Tom Eddington] 11:32:07
A bit about the technology, and what you're up to
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:32:11
Okay, it, says I'm unable to start my video because the co-host.
[Georg Boch] 11:32:16
Now you should be, have a look.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:32:17
No, I should. Okay, I guess I'm on. Can you see? Me?
[George Cappannelli] 11:32:23
Yes, Yup.
[Tom Eddington] 11:32:23
Yup, okay.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:32:24
Okay. Good morning, everybody, Tom, Jim, George, it's a real pleasure to be here this morning.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:32:32
We all have a big challenge in front of us. which is to hopefully slow down, climate change.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:32:39
I actually got started on this challenge along that more than 40 years ago, when I started looking at the what I thought was going to be the energy crisis.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:32:50
I was of the opinion, or believe that we were going to be running out of oil at some point, and that we would have to start to develop Utility, Scale Alternative energies, and got into the business of developing large-scale Wind Energy Projects for Utility Companies I spent a number of years doing
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:33:09
That until the Reagan administration killed all of the Tax Credits, and we saw a whole lot of Projects Disappear, while the the American Government decided that the Energy crisis had been Solved, at that Point this is Back in the early Eightys and so for the next 20 some odd years I spent my time
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:33:32
Building technology companies. But never really lost my love for and desire to do something about the energy situation.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:33:41
And as I continued to watch what I thought was going to be peak oil emerge.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:33:46
As a this problem. we began to see that the whole energy issue was shifting from from running out of oil to a a climate crisis, that the oil itself, was the problem it wasn't, that we were running out of it but it was is polluting the environment, to the extent that it was causing
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:34:06
Significant climate, changes and as a result of that. I started looking at the whole problem again, from a different perspective trying to figure out exactly what it was that was holding back to the clean Energy revolution and after Spending the better part of 6 Months studying the the whole issue, again, came to the Conclusion that the biggest problem, holding back the
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:34:30
Clean energy revolution was getting capital to build the technologies that we needed to deploy in order to solve the climate crisis when you look at the climate crisis, a lot of people think that the solution to the climate crisis is is developing new technologies that we should look for new ways of generating electricity and
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:34:52
New ways to basically solve the the or to get rid of the the carbon going into the atmosphere.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:34:59
But in reality, what we need to do because that the the real issue is that when when you look at developing a new technology, the basic the basic D dynamics are that it takes 10 years, to develop or to to to develop the tech a new technology it takes 10 years, to commercialize it and it
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:35:22
Takes another 10 years to start to scale it, that means that we're at least 30 years out from a Solution.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:35:28
If we had one today, that somebody invented a new way to do it to generate electricity as a result, we don't have time, we're so close to so many of the tipping points, in the atmosphere that we came to the conclusion that what we need to do is to
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:35:44
Generate, clean electricity from the technologies that we already have that are already operating at scale.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:35:51
And those are primarily, 2 technologies solar and wind and as a result of that I looked at the whole thing again.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:35:58
And said, Gee, What's holding back the clean Energy Revolution is actually being able to finance or did deploy the technologies that we already have faster, if we could come up with a way to Accelerate the the Capital going.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:36:13
Into these projects. Then, in fact, we could accelerate the slowing of climate change, and that's.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:36:20
When we decided to start applying technology to the process of financing technology, to finance projects primarily we focus on the solar business so what we've developed is technology to basically take the Friction out of the process by which projects find the capital that they need and as a result of that we're able
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:36:42
to accelerate the velocity of capital.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:36:45
If you will, 2 to 4 times, and to reduce the cost of Getting Projects Financed by up to 75, so We're, in the Process of Building a Platform a Financing Platform, that makes it very easy or much Easier and Much Faster for Developers of Solar Projects first in the United States and then around
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:37:06
the world, to get the capital that they need. So basically, we've made a process.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:37:12
Where you think about it as a as an electronic broker.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:37:15
If you will, instead of calling a broker, you go online with your project, and you basically fill in a bunch of questionnaires.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:37:22
And then we automatically analyze the project using algorithms and various pieces of technology to determine exactly what the status of of your project would be.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:37:35
And then taking that information we match it up with the right institutional investors, and make the connection in a couple of minutes, It Normally, would take a couple of months so basically that's what we do and we we Believe that We can accelerate the the deployment of this of this Critic.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:37:54
of these critical technologies Primarily Solar and Eventually wind Energy, much faster than We're doing it.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:37:59
Now, so basically, that's what we're doing
[George Cappannelli] 11:38:02
Wait.
[Tom Eddington] 11:38:02
Thank you, Wayne, Bob, do you want to turn your video on and join us in a conversation, and you know for for both, of you, what you're, what you're up to in the world, is is very disruptive to to where we are and I'd love to hear you know what's, what's
[Tom Eddington] 11:38:18
the consciousness that you're bringing to this, the consciousness that your encountering in the in the marketplace where you're working, and where where are you finding challenges
[Bob Sherwin] 11:38:32
Well, for for our technologies, we have basically, 3, different funnels, or of of Types of folks that can use our technology, there's, the the Public, sector, which would include the city county State Dots, the national Forest Blm fema and even the military and in the private Sector, people, that are Building, their own Roads.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:39:05
And pads, and so forth would be the the wind and solar and gas, and Oil, Timber, Mining, We're, We're Doing projects with Union, Pacific Railroad, and and Bns App and so forth that have big lay down Yards, and and Needs that Way, and then in
[Bob Sherwin] 11:39:28
The the third group would be the Sovereign Nations, There's approximately 560, some tribes that have thousands of miles of of roads that are in desperate Need of Help, and and so each one of those have their Own.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:39:46
Level of adoption. I guess you could say where the the dots would be the the most difficult ones to get through to because they are extremely conservative.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:40:00
Group, and and you know it's interesting the the Romans, We're were extraordinary road Builders.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:40:09
They they did 50,000 miles of roads and their their technology was to put the big rocks on the bottom and the little rocks on top.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:40:19
And they would put pavers on top of that instead of asphalt, and so what's happened under the road has Not changed since the Romance you know.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:40:29
So so it's it's been slow to to see that kind of technology, change.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:40:34
But we have received the first dot approval in in Utah, we expect to have New Mexico in Texas, in the next 6 months.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:40:43
And then we found a path forward where we could actually go to a national dealt approval process.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:40:51
Called, the np-p is the national transportation product evaluation program, and there's no product.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:40:58
Ever that's been submitted that's made it through their first battery of test which is extensive and and we did pass through that and we're in the Second Battery of tests in fact we're down to the last Test of the second, Battery and and so We
[Bob Sherwin] 11:41:12
Expect to see they have a 45 of the 50 Dealt's, or Members of Ashton, and we expect to see those Approvals here within within the Year and maybe Sooner so and and the the Issues, with Roads, are are far bigger than Santa Fe you know they are Global
[Bob Sherwin] 11:41:36
Problems, and so when we when we went to the the dots they said, You know similar to what he was just describing?
[Bob Sherwin] 11:41:45
You know 10 years, 10 years, 10 years of there to to go to market and to scale, and so forth.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:41:50
It wasn't too far off with the dots. There was a 3 to 5 year.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:41:54
Wait list to get into the product, Evaluation program and then they want to see roads that are 3 to 5 years old before they will even evaluate them, and and so alternatively they said go build some roads, and once you've got you know 3 to 5 years then come talk to us so
[Bob Sherwin] 11:42:11
We're at that stage. Now, where we have roads that are over 4 years old, and and some of those roads one in particular, that has only chip seal. You know when you that's kind of the the challenges when you're starting with counties they don't have the budgets to
[Bob Sherwin] 11:42:29
Do asphalt, so Chip Seal. Typically will only last 3 to 5 years.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:42:35
If you have a lot of heavy weight loads on it.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:42:38
It could be gone in a couple of months. Well, we built a road where a Trucking company is based where they have 540 ton trucks, that leave and come back every day so a 1,040 ton trucks is like 10 million cars, on that road a day, and that road is 4 and a
[Bob Sherwin] 11:42:56
half years, old doesn't have a crack or pothole on it, and we've had people flying from India to see that cause.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:43:03
I can't even believe that that's possible in their building 250,000 kilometers of Roads, Right.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:43:10
Now we think our 1, point 2, trillion, dollar, infrastructure, Bill is huge.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:43:15
And it. Is India has a 18 trillion dollar budget, right now.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:43:21
And just just for the Road Portion. It's it's 5, 5, Trillion, and so they're really Aggressively putting in a lot of Roads and looking for New Technologies, Right. Now.
[George Cappannelli] 11:43:30
But you you mentioned, you know some of the impediments in terms, of Timing and Length of Roads and all the Rest of it, how Scalable is your Process and how Much would Greater Public Exposure, to its Merits, Benefit the Funding, Process.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:43:57
Yeah, good question, so our our model is to be the product supplier and the Geotechnical Company.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:44:07
So we have a state of the R. Geotechnical Lab and and teams of Geotech that that perform all of the Testing One of the things I didn't mention is our product is Customizable, and every Single Project that we do is a different Formula for the for the material that We're Working
[Bob Sherwin] 11:44:28
With I don't know of any other company that that customizes their formula for every single project, and so we have blending partners that we have across the across the us 15.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:44:43
Of them, so far, and 2 in Canada and these blending Partners.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:44:51
We initially went to some of the Larger Cement blending facilities to see if they would customize their operations, to produce our product, and they were so busy you know trying to meet the Demands of of the Cement.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:45:12
Industry which by the way, is next to water. It is the second substance most used by humans like 8 tons, per human per year of some man, it's Extraordinary and and a very large contributor, as everybody knows, to the Global Warming and so we went to the Next Tier down and and
[Bob Sherwin] 11:45:39
The people, that were filling the £50 bags of of Mortar and stucco, and quick Crete, for Home, Depot and went to those folks, and said, You know We're Using a 100 and 60 Tons, Per Mile which is or 100 and 75 Tons, Per Mile, Depending on
[Bob Sherwin] 11:46:01
the Material 7 Truckloads because these truckloads can carry you know, 25 tons.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:46:07
And suddenly they looked at us as as wow! That's a lot of £50 bags.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:46:12
We'll we'll do whatever we need to do to customize, to to make your product.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:46:17
So those are the typical partners that we've been able to bring on, and we've been able to do that at a 0 capital expenditure 0 capex with all of these blending Partners so consequently in order to Scale all we have to do is is expand our our
[Bob Sherwin] 11:46:36
Geo Technical Capability. And that's pretty easy to do.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:46:41
And you know, we have all of the equipment for example that runs the battery of tests that we do is there's about $250,000 so it's not very much to just keep duplicating doubling at $250,000.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:46:55
A very very scalable and and then of course we send our geotechs out at the time that they install the Road, to do the quality control in the field, testing and they want to make sure that they're hitting the same numbers in the Field that that we hit in the Lab and cause.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:47:15
When we come out of the lab, we know that it works it's just then a matter of execution.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:47:19
So I think that would hopefully answers your question George
[George Cappannelli] 11:47:24
Thanks and Wayne, from your standpoint, you mentioned reducing the friction, I know you're talking in Part about the Process.
[George Cappannelli] 11:47:36
But what other frictions exist that prevent that easier flow of capital to project
[George Cappannelli] 11:47:44
You're muted. I think. Yeah.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:47:48
The frictions that exist in the world of financing, are primarily the flow of information from the process of by or the process that currently is used to find project capital for properties and the way that it's, done today, primarily, is that If you have a Project that's, looking for account what you typically do is
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:48:13
Put together. What's called a pitch book, and this would be a a book that's anywhere, from 75 to a couple of 100 pages long, which Details, the Project in Excruciating Minutia, such that when you send it to an Investor Investor then has all the information that
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:48:33
They need in order to evaluate the project, and try to determine what the risks are of that project before they make a determination, whether they want to commit capital to it so that's, the the Process of putting together that Pitch Book which Usually takes a Couple of months and then
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:48:53
Circulating that pitch book to all kinds of different investors, who then have to go through the process of trying to analyze it, that's a long and elaborate process, and it takes typically anywhere, from 3 to 6 months to find the capital that you need for a Project, if in fact you can find it
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:49:10
At all what you have to do is. You have to know where to go, to look, and there are somewhere in the neighborhood of about a 1,000 institutional investors in the United States who have capital for these kinds of projects so trying to find the right ones that have capital at the right time with the right mix and so
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:49:27
On is a very very elaborate, slow process. We speed that whole process up by basically first, going out and collecting the information from each one of the institutional investors.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:49:41
So that we know exactly what their sweet spot, is. We want to know exactly what kind of capital, they have what kinds of technologies they invest in what are the deal structures hurdle.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:49:52
Rates all of the information that's necessary, that they would go through to try to determine whether, in fact, a project fits, their requirements.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:50:00
We put that all into a very sophisticated database, and then when a project comes in, we basically are able to take that, project, and put it against that database and find investors who are interested and qualified for that particular Project in a couple of months a couple of minutes that would normally, take
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:50:19
months and months and months. So that's how we speed up the process and that basically means that we can theoretically, if we could, double the Velocity of capital, that means we could put twice as much Money to Work in the Solar, business, as is currently going into the business today.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:50:36
That's number one number 2. The the big impact is.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:50:40
And where this really has the most significant impact, as far as we're concerned, is that quite often developers run out of money before they can find the capital that they need so with our technology, we think that we can increase the number or the percentage of projects that actually get built that would not have gotten built and we base based on
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:51:01
Our modeling, we into, we think we can save about 6 gigatons of Co.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:51:05
2 from going, into the atmosphere over the first 10 years of our operation, which is the equivalent of about the United States, the United States dumps About 6 Gigatons of Co.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:51:17
In the Atmosphere, every year. So theoretically, we could offset at least one year for every 10 years, We're in Business of Carbon going into the Atmosphere so that's why, We're pretty excited about this Technology.
[George Cappannelli] 11:51:31
Well, you know what's fascinating to me is I think back just over the the course of this week, and a number of innovators and technologists that we've spoken to in land, regeneration, kelp regeneration, and on and on and on and when I listen
[George Cappannelli] 11:51:52
To Bob and that both the challenges and the opportunities that accelerated Lithification means for Humanity, your model is pretty Extraordinary and the question is what would it take to Create models, like that for a number of these extraordinary Opportunities, I Mean the Folks that were
[George Cappannelli] 11:52:18
On, Monday talked about how the kelp process could literally feed humanity.
[George Cappannelli] 11:52:25
If it was Develops and scalable, the same with different land, regeneration projects, so it seems that just with the folks that have been on this week we have the possibility of contributing so enormously to What's Ahead and to provide Terrific Opportunities for Investors, who Want to invest in the
[George Cappannelli] 11:52:49
Future? So what would it take bob in your industry, or or wayne?
[George Cappannelli] 11:52:55
What would it take to expand that model to cover these other needs
[Bob Sherwin] 11:53:00
Well in our case, one of the other applications that we that we are coming out of a one year study that will actually have the the white Paper.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:53:12
Next week. is with all of our technologies. We've had substantiated by Los Angeles, National Laboratories, and we just completing our fifth year in A Row with Them and Algae Biofuel is a Interesting Opportunity for for a Renewable, Fuel
[Bob Sherwin] 11:53:37
And Los Alamos and India are the 2 Largest Biofuel Research centers in the World and they've been doing it for 18 years, and when they started the Biofuel
[Bob Sherwin] 11:53:53
Algae, Biofuel. It costs them a $130 a gallon to to produce.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:54:00
Jeff, after 18 years, and who knows how many millions of dollars they have that down to $8, a gallon at the moment?
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:54:10
Yeah
[Bob Sherwin] 11:54:10
Their goal is to get to $5, a gallon, and they see this, not not for the cars, because they see the industry, going to electric, but they see it, for jet fuel, ships, to power ships, and the 40 ton, trucks, that are Shipping product, around around the Country, and so they they
[Bob Sherwin] 11:54:34
have Diesel and Jet, fuel, and What's interesting about algae is it consumes, Carbon, dioxide to Grow It's.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:54:45
It's what it it's what it eats to grow, and so the first place they would put these algae, Biofuel raceways where they're growing the the algae would Be around.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:54:56
Coal, Burning Operations, and places that that have extreme carbon, dioxide, and so the ponds themselves are only 10 to 12 inches deep.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:55:08
And the reason. Is that photosynthesis takes place in the top foot of water, and the raceways are like an oval track where they have paddle, wheels, that move the Water around the the around the track and what lines, the ponds, are plastic and synthetic liners which are made out
[Bob Sherwin] 11:55:28
Of fossil, fuel, and course, the whole industry that is trying to get away from fossil, Fuel, and the Downside with the The Pond Liners, is that because of the Intense UV light that takes place in the top Foot of Water It's, the UV Light Breaks, down, the the Plastic.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:55:50
And it disintegrates, and when they scale right.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:55:54
Now, these rways are are only like a 100 feet long, or something like that.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:55:58
But to Scale, they they want to go to 10 and 50 acre areas that have raceways, and so out of the $8, A gallon currently 50% or 50 cents on the dollar $4, is the Pondliner so we were approached, by los Alamos saying, what if you could Build
[Bob Sherwin] 11:56:23
Lithtech Earthliners that would have no fossil, fuel would have, Hmm, no way that the seams come apart like with with plastic doesn't break down by UV, light and if you can help bring the cost down to $5 a gallon which Jet Fuel right now is
[Bob Sherwin] 11:56:42
Over $8, a gallon already, but you can bring the cost down to $5, a gallon.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:56:50
They would need a 121,000, square miles of onlineers, which is the size of New Mexico.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:56:54
Yes.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 11:56:58
Oh!
[Bob Sherwin] 11:56:59
To to put all over the country, and it could be the replacement for fossil, fuel and it burns at 50% left Fossil, Fuel, then Fossil, Fuels Greenhouse, Gases, so so anyway, It's, It's, a an Opportunity to to create
[Bob Sherwin] 11:57:18
A new fuel, that and it in every 21 days.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:57:23
It's it's turning over drawing a whole new batch.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:57:25
So it grows very quickly and and produces something. That's sustainable
[George Cappannelli] 11:57:31
And Could A funding process in your end, like the funding process that Wayne and his team have developed?
[George Cappannelli] 11:57:41
How would that serve what you're trying to do?
[Bob Sherwin] 11:57:43
Tremendously. We we have 8 different verticals, right? Different.
[Bob Sherwin] 11:57:47
Technologies, right now that we need to get from the laboratory from Los Alamos into the field, and as Wayne was saying the biggest challenge for new technologies is is people can run out of money before they can get the technology developed Pardon me and I know, there's, a lot of
[Bob Sherwin] 11:58:09
institutional investors looking for esg environmental, social governance type of of in investments to make and we're certainly seeking those kind of investors so would like very much to see what we could do to to help bring in the funding necessary
[Tom Eddington] 11:58:29
Yeah, I think one of the interesting things we had. John Montgomery on Humanity, rising program.
[Tom Eddington] 11:58:38
A couple of weeks ago, during cop 27 and John was sharing sharing that you know most most companies something North of 90% of companies have have set a goal to get to Net 0 but they Don't have a plan in place and oftentimes the excuse they use is the technology isn't
[Tom Eddington] 11:58:59
There, the Alternatives, aren't there, and you know what's what's fascinating for for me, with the 2 of you and and your business is is you actually have technological, solutions, and the Industry's Definitely Definitely Need, them and yet I Suspect to George's Question, if Companies
[Tom Eddington] 11:59:22
Will actually go from having a goal, to actually having a plan to when they get to net 0 it's going to create the market opportunities to to provide the funding, and the demand for your technologies and so it's almost a and there's a a catalytic change that needs to happen in
[Tom Eddington] 11:59:38
The in the Boardrooms, where companies are moving from having a goal to actually having a plan, and creating the urgency
[George Cappannelli] 11:59:46
And and Wayne is I mean, I know you have your hands.
[George Cappannelli] 11:59:52
Full obviously doing, what you're doing. But is there a way that you could conceive of that there could be additional pathways for other industries that could do the same things and perhaps with a whole set of inventors, that may not be focused or available when it comes to solar or wind
[George Cappannelli] 12:00:12
Or whatever it happens to be.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:00:14
Yes, so, we're quite optimistic about the fact that it would be possible to take this model, and expand it, into other areas of of investment.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:00:24
It just takes a, a significant investment upfront to model and map.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:00:29
The process, and the various participants, because, for example, if you look at the Solar business, right now Solar and Storage Costs have dropped Well Storage Solar Costs have dropped about 20 times in the last 20 years, and Storage Costs by the end of this Decade will it.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:00:50
Drop by 45 times. That means that at by the end of this decade solar and storage will be the cheapest form of Electricity everywhere in the world which means all of the existing fossil power, plants, will, become stranded, assets, they'll become obsolete if
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:01:07
You will by the end of this decade. At that point we have to be investing about a trillion, dollars, a year in Solar Projects.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:01:16
Well, that's an enormous amount of money that has to be moved from various pools of of capital, into projects it'll be in the neighborhood somewhere between 50, and 100,000 projects, a year you can't do that manually you have to start to use information technologies to make that capital
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:01:38
Move quickly to model the same kind of thing in other areas.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:01:43
For developing, new technologies, for example, we could facilitate or speed up the process of of capital formation.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:01:51
Much more quickly. But it would take a significant investment upfront in in modeling and doing the mapping of the Process and then putting that into software so that it could bend then be deployed
[George Cappannelli] 12:02:04
Well, you know, it's interesting, the the other question I have is are there nonprofit, compatible structures, or associations that could be put together to change public awareness, I mean, we're just scratching the surface here, and there are other organizations that are also trying to
[George Cappannelli] 12:02:27
Bring to public attention. the terrific work that's being done.
[George Cappannelli] 12:02:33
But it seems to me that that's a factor that could also help influence businesses, and what they do, and others, if we could educate the public as to these extraordinary benefits that can, come to humanity, as a whole with these innovations, you know when I think of what today, we are literally flushing down the
[George Cappannelli] 12:02:59
Toilet with donations from individuals to political figures in order to get elected, I mean?
[George Cappannelli] 12:03:07
What did we spend, you know hundreds of millions and billions of dollars just in the last election? I imagine what would happen if some of that money could go to providing the modeling or increase Awareness about all of these things
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:03:24
Preaching to the choir
[George Cappannelli] 12:03:26
Yeah, I know, I know.
[Tom Eddington] 12:03:28
Yeah, I think to your point, George, you know one of the one of the organizations that's been around for about a dozen years, is called our children's trust and it's a group of 16 kids that are Suing the State, of Oregon and other States in the Federal government here in
[Tom Eddington] 12:03:47
the Us, and children outside the us who are who are suing governments, either State, local, or or national governments for stealing their future, and it's creating an unexpected tremendous amount of pressure, on our public, officials, to to look at our Policies, around energy, and Climate Change or you know
[Tom Eddington] 12:04:09
what I refer to as climate disasters. So that's one arena and the nonprofit area, where there's an unexpected voice very much like a Greta Turnberg and some of the other young folks, who are you know really finding their voice, and that you know it's
[Tom Eddington] 12:04:29
the Gen Zers who may actually make the market opportunities possible
[George Cappannelli] 12:04:32
I wonder, as well, if some of the other environmentally focused Organism, Sierra Cl Club, and Whatnot couldn't be brought into this picture and invited to start Sharing Information about the Stuff That's going on I mean they have great Constituencies their leadership is conscious but I've, never
[George Cappannelli] 12:04:57
Heard of one of these organizations, talk about organizations that actually have solutions to the issues that They're trying to address
[Tom Eddington] 12:05:07
Yeah, unfortunately, with with many of those organizations, they've gotten big enough and their budgets are large enough.
[Tom Eddington] 12:05:13
That they're now dependent and so they're, they're not willing to take the what they perceive, is the political risk to alienate, some of their constituents
[George Cappannelli] 12:05:23
And What's next Wayne, Bob What's next in the evolution of the Good work that you're doing
[Bob Sherwin] 12:05:35
Well, we're yeah, the place right now, where we are trying to bring these technologies to to the market, the road technology, we have successfully been turning over for 4 and a, half years.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:05:51
This year, Infection next next month. We have the opportunity to to really gain some traction.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:05:59
In in another technology, that that we're meeting with the EPA and the Navajo EPA on a on another major issue, that's pretty quiet, most people, Don't know anything about it but there are 15,000, Abandoned uranium minds in the 17 Western states 50
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:06:22
Oh, okay.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:06:23
50 million people, including people in Santa Fe live within 10 miles of abandoned uranium, mines that are in the Santa Fe national Forest.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:06:32
And it's finding uranium in the water of 50% of the water in the 17 western states, of 3 million people, but on the Navajo Nation, It's extremely a problem they have 500 and 24, Abandoned, Uranium Mines, People, Living near
[Bob Sherwin] 12:06:53
Them. have 10 times the cancer rates and birth effect, rates.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:06:58
And so there was a lawsuit between the government and the Navajo nation, that
[Bob Sherwin] 12:07:04
10 billion dollar, lawsuit settled for 4.6 billion, and now they're trying to cap these abandoned uranium lines, and the problem for the Nepos is they cannot use the water Anywhere on the Navajo, Nation they Drilled 200.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:07:21
Wells cannot use the Water anywhere. They have to truck it in from over 100 miles away.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:07:25
So it's a it's a serious problem. And and the current design, from Linux Regulatory Commission it used to be where they would put you know, 4 feet of clay over the top of these Abandoned Uranium lines, Compact it Down and put a a concrete Cap on top of
[Bob Sherwin] 12:07:44
That, and inevitably water gets to the clay.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:07:49
It swells Breaks, the Country, the watery Roads, Away, the Site, and Exposes, the the uranium, so then they decided to just go, with a foot of sand Foot to play for the Sam Foot a Clay, Don't, even Bother, to put Concrete, on Cap on Top because It's, gonna Shrink and Swell
[Bob Sherwin] 12:08:06
And break this put press rock on top and kind of brush their hands, and say, we built it to spec, let's get out of Here Don't Anybody, test it well, there's only 2 labs in the country that can test, for you rightium Containment in los alamos is one of those and turns
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:08:19
Whoa.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:08:23
Out that it's only containing the the Uranium in Layman's Terms, Level, 3 out of 10.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:08:29
And so, they can spend all this money, and end up with 70% of the problem at the end of the day.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:08:35
So Los Angeles was very instrumental in helping Us.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:08:40
Co-design, a technology for capping abandon, your uranium minds, and it came in 10, out of 10, uranium containment, and our introduction to the EPA and the Navajo EPA is on the Seventeenth of January, next month, and so we are
[Bob Sherwin] 12:08:57
Very interested in, excited to see if if this technology can be adopted and and and go through the the hoops of the EPA and the Nrc Nuclear Regulatory Commission, etcetera to to get this adopted, but It's a Major Opportunity and problem and we feel like we have
[Bob Sherwin] 12:09:19
The the solution. We we know we, we do so now it's just a matter of again.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:09:24
Getting funded to take it out of the lab and into the field to to start actually building them. And and so that's that's kind of what's next for us is is is to be able to to expand these technologies, and beyond the roads, into into 8 of these different verticals.
[George Cappannelli] 12:09:44
And I can't. I can't encourage you more, Bob, I mean Tom and I like you live in New Mexico, and I'll bet I couldn't find one auto 100,000 people that have any idea of the number of uranium uranium minds that are here, I also happen
[George Cappannelli] 12:10:03
to know that new Mexico has the largest, budget surplus in history.
[George Cappannelli] 12:10:11
And some of that funding could go toward this work.
[George Cappannelli] 12:10:16
But the public needs to know about this Stuff, just like the public needs to know about road, degradation.
[George Cappannelli] 12:10:23
How many of us would give our right arm to not have to hit as many potholes or whatnot, as we do, as we drive along Roads.
[George Cappannelli] 12:10:31
You know. So I can't encourage you more.
[George Cappannelli] 12:10:37
To find allies that can help amplify information about what you're doing and what it can do.
[George Cappannelli] 12:10:43
In the same for you way, you know.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:10:47
Yeah, what we're doing right now is 2 things, we're we're seeking capital to continue to develop our technology, but we're also seeking relationships with other organizations, primarily, investment, banks, and other people in the financial services, business, that can get the story, out, to the various
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:11:08
Investors what's happened in the last couple of years is that the financial community is finally starting to wake up to the fact that we do have a climate crisis.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:11:18
We do have a climate problem, and that there is a significant need to move or redeploy capital into the various new clean technologies, that everybody's working on the process, by which you do that means that the institutional investors, need to get more information about where the opportunities, are and so we think that we can
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:11:41
Provide those kinds of that kind of information to it electronically.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:11:46
So that we can speed up the whole process. So there is a significant opportunity.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:11:54
Here, to use technology to information technologies, to move the capital, and make it move it to where it needs to be, for these and to educate, the institutional investors about where the opportunities are like the ones bob has got and the ones, that are happening in the solar and wind and all kinds of other
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:12:15
Industries right now
[George Cappannelli] 12:12:15
Yeah, I wonder, whether the insurance industry would be interested in investing so that they don't eventually go out of business.
[George Cappannelli] 12:12:25
You know,
[Bob Sherwin] 12:12:26
Yeah
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:12:26
Well, they as a matter of fact, they are Swiss re, for example, recently put a 100 million dollars into a carbon capture technology company in Europe called Climb works.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:12:36
I don't think the technology I don't think the investment is going to pay off but that that doesn't mean they're not doing.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:12:42
It, the Insurance companies are actually the lead on the leading edge of of Seeing What's happening because happy to pick up the bill for All of these client disasters, so they're actually among the most Aggressive with Regard To looking for Opportunities.
[George Cappannelli] 12:12:47
Yes.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:12:59
And ways to to eliminate, to ameliorate the problem.
[George Cappannelli] 12:13:02
Well, that's really good to hear cause. They need to be.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:13:07
All, These.
[George Cappannelli] 12:13:07
You, know. Yeah, that's true. Jim, are you on board.
[George Cappannelli] 12:13:15
Do you want to come in and and do you have questions, or thoughts you wanna share
[Jim Garrison] 12:13:24
Thank you, Bob thank you wayne, this is a marvelous session.
[Jim Garrison] 12:13:28
Once again, a good way to commemorate our 6 hundredth program on humanity rising.
[Jim Garrison] 12:13:35
I wanna just start with you, Bob, your discussion of the minds and new Mexico, and the Damage that's been done Reminded me of my First Book that I Authored back in the late 1,900 and Seventys, called the Plutonium, Culture, and the the Thesis that
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:13:35
Okay.
[Jim Garrison] 12:13:55
I I offered, which was quite quite controversial at the time, was that more people have been harmed and killed by nuclear power.
[Jim Garrison] 12:14:07
Then nuclear weapons. We think of Hiroshima, and Nagasaki and Cumulatively.
[Jim Garrison] 12:14:17
There was probably 2 to 300,000 people who were kids.
[Jim Garrison] 12:14:21
But if you look at the damage in the nuclear field cycle between the mining, and the Milling, and the Processing and the Transportation, and then the nuclear power Plants, that Operate, for 20 Years Spewing Out, Radiation and then the Story, of a Radioactive, Ingredient, the
[Jim Garrison] 12:14:48
half Life of which is tens of thousands of years. You get a measure of the damage that is been done both to environment, and the people all over the world.
[Jim Garrison] 12:15:04
Where anyone, any country has built nuclear power. So I just want to thank you for bringing that in because you know, there's a there's a resurgence whether it's.
[Jim Garrison] 12:15:17
Bill Gates, Or Elon, Musk, or these technologists.
[Jim Garrison] 12:15:23
Who have the public attention that are talking about kind of if you want to go clean and off fossil fuels, you nuclear powers, is one of the Key kind of new technologies that we should be employing and you Juxtapose, that with the Damage,
[Jim Garrison] 12:15:46
To Life and health. it's it's a preposterous proposition.
[Jim Garrison] 12:15:50
And so I just wanna bring that in like you just warm my heart, because I hadn't thought about the Navajo I did a couple of actions, actually and Navajo land, civil disobedience and So Forth back in the late Nineteenth, seventies, and in Oklahoma we shut
[Jim Garrison] 12:16:07
Down the Black Fox Nuclear Reactor, Outside of Tulsa, with the Largest Civil Disobedience, I think Ever Convened in in the Southwest around Nuclear Power So I just wanted to Acknowledge your Remarks, and just Wonder whether you or Wayne
[Jim Garrison] 12:16:26
or anyone wants to just comment.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:16:27
Actually, it's really interesting you bring up the plutonium.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:16:31
Because There's there there's a group of 16 scientists, 2 of the top scientists, from 8, national laboratories, that are on a task force.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:16:42
Right, now to to go into some of these super funds, sites and figure out the best available technologies for the Cleanup and while, the biggest disasters is Hanford Washington and Hanford is a 520 Square mile area that the the Government went in in the Forties during
[Jim Garrison] 12:16:50
Hmm.
[Jim Garrison] 12:16:55
Oh, totally!
[Bob Sherwin] 12:17:08
The Plutonium, you know effort to like you, said to you know way more people than damage and harmed and killed and and not to mention the environment, then than any nuclear weapons, but in Hanford the estimated well, first of all what they did is they condemned an entire town, every home
[Bob Sherwin] 12:17:29
Every business, every school, bought by the government, and everybody had to leave, and and they started mining Platonium in this 500, and 20 square, mile area.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:17:44
Well, today it is perhaps the largest superfund Site.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:17:49
It's estimated at 660 billion dollars to go in and clean it up.
[Jim Garrison] 12:17:52
Alright.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:17:52
And this task force of of 16 top scientists just named the Lithtech as best available technology for the Cleanup, and the Technical term Bat is the best available technology and the second one and There's White Papers Written On each of these is Moab Utah, similar Disaster with Iranium Not as big as Hanford but
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:17:53
Please.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:18:19
Still another environmental disaster, that most people just are not aware of the what the the kind of damage that these things have caused to the planet, and to the people, and and you know the people that were involved in the mining, and their deaths, and health issues and so forth, that that all of this has as creative is
[Bob Sherwin] 12:18:38
Just amazing
[Jim Garrison] 12:18:40
Yeah, it's a
[George Cappannelli] 12:18:40
I I wonder I'm sorry I was just I I wonder if you've mentioned 3 white papers during the course of our conversation today.
[George Cappannelli] 12:18:50
Would you would it be possible to make those available to humanity rising. So we can put those on our site, not only for people who are in the chat, but for people who are listening so that they could write in and get copies, of those 3 white papers, would that be possible
[Bob Sherwin] 12:19:07
Yeah, absolutely there's our 7 white paper will come out before the end of the month, and a lot of them are are already on our website and look@lithtechlittec.com and but we can certainly make sure that Tom or yourself, gets those and you have a way, to
[Bob Sherwin] 12:19:27
Reach your audience, as Well.
[George Cappannelli] 12:19:28
Oh, terrific thank you go ahead. I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt. There.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:19:30
Do that
[Jim Garrison] 12:19:32
Yeah, the the note. no interruption at all.
[Jim Garrison] 12:19:38
The larger question. I'd like to put to both of you along the following lines, and I'm speaking as a as an Activist, for Geez at least 40 years, now, who've been Arrested multiple Times, done Actions all around the Country and Globally, you know in the
[Jim Garrison] 12:20:03
Seventies, and then in the eighties. We knew about solar power.
[Jim Garrison] 12:20:07
We knew about the the harmful effects of nuclear power.
[Jim Garrison] 12:20:11
We were on the streets, we were in the News. We then had 3 Mile Island.
[Jim Garrison] 12:20:17
Then we Had Chernobyl, we've had many many opportunities to Develop Solar power, much more expeditiously and at Scale and we Haven't.
[Jim Garrison] 12:20:30
Done it, and I I'd like to probe that with both of you, because I think there's a tendency to believe.
[Jim Garrison] 12:20:38
Well, if you just make the technology available, or you educate people more than they're, gonna draw the obvious conclusions, but that doesn't appear to have been what's what's happened, there appears, to be Vested Interests that are actively, opposing, the Development of Solar actively.
[Jim Garrison] 12:21:04
Opposing the development of even well built Roads, because of of money, power and Corruption, sort of on the other side and I'd love to have both of you speak about that because We're We're really now no Longer even in the Eleventh Hour We're
[Jim Garrison] 12:21:28
We're in kind of the hour, where it may already be too late, and our rhetoric, as I've experienced it in the last 40 years hasn't changed much in the Environmental Movement and on the Progressive side so as 2 guys that you know, that have been on in the
[Jim Garrison] 12:21:48
Trenches, for for many, many years, you know easily as long as I have.
[Jim Garrison] 12:21:55
How how are you understanding, the the moment that we are in?
[Jim Garrison] 12:22:01
And what kind of changes in the environmental and progressive movement need to be made in order to make the difference, we must make for humanity to save itself
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:22:15
It it's a really good question. And it, I think it's an issue that we all struggle with all of the time.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:22:21
There's no question about the fact, that the Vested Interest, particularly in the energy at least in my business, which is the energy business the Vested Interests have an enormous hold on the Society, and and All of the Decisions, that get made both Politically and and economically for example we know that the
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:22:39
Oil industries. The oil, companies, actually started studying climate change 40 years ago, their own scientists told them that we were going to have a problem and to this day they're still ignoring it and putting their head in the sand with regard to what are we going to do about it, because they're they run the risk of
[Jim Garrison] 12:22:44
Hmm.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:22:58
Losing, a an extremely, looperative business in the New York Times, a couple of weeks. Ago.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:23:03
There was an article about how the Saudi Arabians are basically lobbying, the United States Congress on keeping Fossil, fuels.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:23:12
So we're up against an enormous amount of capital and enormous amount of infrastructure in terms, of of Existing Vested Interests that are are are tempting to slow Down, the Process I Think, That's the That's the number one problem for Example, There's
[Jim Garrison] 12:23:16
Hmm.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:23:29
More solar. There's more subsidies given to the oil and gas industry than there are to the renewal energy, business, we're still subsidizing the oil and Gas, industry which is an enormous, business, is certainly Doesn't Need any more Subsidies, and it's certainly We certainly Need
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:23:46
more subsidies, for the the Green technologies. Than We're getting so until we can change that it's going to be difficult.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:23:53
It's going to be an uphill fight. So I'm not sure, since we fight this, all the time, what what what gives me the greatest amount of encouragement is the fact that the economics are finally changing now certainly with regard to solar the price of solar in many places in most places around the
[Jim Garrison] 12:24:06
Right,
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:24:11
World, is already cheaper than oil and gas, but you're still, got you know these enormous vested interests, for example, Gigabit Nuisance is still fighting with the oil with the Gap the natural Gas Industry.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:24:24
To get rid, of natural, gas, and not in housing, both cooking and Heating, and Getting, an enormous amount of resistance.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:24:33
So it's it's natural that those people are gonna continue to fight and fight hard until something happens.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:24:39
I'm afraid that what's likely to happen is the climate is going to catch us before we make the changes that we need to.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:24:45
Do. But that's I need to to sign off. I've got a another investor presentation coming on in a few minutes.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:24:53
So I would like to thank all of you very much for participating.
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:24:57
Thank you, Jim, for the work that You're doing, and Tom and George and Bob Great work love it. Let's keep the faith, thank you very much.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:25:08
Thank you, Wendy
[Jim Garrison] 12:25:08
Thank You Wayne, good luck with the Investor, Bob, any comment that you would like to make as we draw the program to a close, and then Tom and then George
[Tom Eddington] 12:25:09
Thank you, Wayne
[George Cappannelli] 12:25:09
Thanks Wayne
[Wayne Van Dyck] 12:25:12
Thank you.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:25:22
Thank you. Yeah, the it's a similar thing with the with the road, industry, the Asphalt is comes from Owen, and they I.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:25:35
Remember, we we were@apavingconferenceuhyouknow.conference, and I'm talking to one of the heads that won't mention the state of of the dot and That's State and I'm talking to them about how we can Reduce the the Thickness of the Asphalt by
[Bob Sherwin] 12:25:52
two-thirds, and he said, well, you know the people in my state, we we like asphalt and you know we don't want to do anything.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:26:01
To you, know, to sell, do anything, to to then to use, less, asphalt and and he was elected by those folks, and and and so you know, those are the the Challenges is when when Will, people, Start Making the Decision To do the Right thing Instead of what What's, Lining their Pockets or
[Bob Sherwin] 12:26:21
Getting them elected, or you know it. That's that's the challenge that that we're all trying to break that mold in in our own way, and and do what's, right for the planet and the highest good for all concerned, and instead of the selfishness, and the the greed and
[Bob Sherwin] 12:26:36
So forth, that drives so many of these industries and and they really have their hold the lobbyists, and so forth that go in even the gravel that's a it's, a major impact on the planet, you're you're digging, massive, you know holds, into the earth and
[Bob Sherwin] 12:26:51
Crushing boulders, and and putting them in piles of one, and a half inch, minus, some, 3 quarter Inch, minus, and then adding, sand and then it all has to be hauled away, every mile, 187 truckloads, just to get to the storage, place and then
[Bob Sherwin] 12:27:06
When the project's being built, it gets shipped again, and you look at all that fuel you know it's it's incredible.
[Jim Garrison] 12:27:10
I'm unbelievable.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:27:14
But they they have their they have their holds on the industry and the elected officials, and those are the things that that have to change in order. For these new opportunities, to come forward, and people doing just what's right for the planet for humanity.
[Jim Garrison] 12:27:29
Yeah. Well, thank you, Bob, you know you you're like Atlas, holding up the world.
[Jim Garrison] 12:27:35
I mean anybody just taking on roads. Man is like that's like the bottom line.
[Jim Garrison] 12:27:42
Because we've been building roads for 10,000 years.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:27:46
Yeah, yeah, so this is big, it's a big undertaker.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:27:50
And it's a huge opportunity at the same time, and and so we appreciate the opportunity to to be on the show today, and to you know, to be able to get our story out, there and help educate, people.
[Bob Sherwin] 12:28:01
So
[Jim Garrison] 12:28:02
Thank you.